Even our own. These arguments always boil down to the same thing moving the fence, trying to let some sins be okay and castigating any Christian who holds to orthodoxy. Forgive. They need to ask forgiveness and repent like all sinners need too do. Also, you can say it all you want, but monogamous, consensual, same sex relationships are neither sinful, nor addressed in scripture At. Im sorry, but a gay couple can easily be married and so long as they dont divorce (for any reason save infidelity), theyre obeying GOD. Did Jesus condemn homosexualituy? He also loved sinners into the kingdom rather than condemn them. Thanks, man. Come be part of what God is doing." Yet, I am still saved. I agree. A church that brought me to Christ for the first time in my life, helped my family know and love God, led by a truly honest, good man, just vanished. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sex sins, and marries another, is guilty of sex sins in marriage. Whether it be drunkiness,adultery or homosexuality. I understand the point and process of biblical feedback. No, Jesus didnt specifically say its wrong to deliberately injure yourself, but you cant love your neighbor if you dont love yourself. My guess is, she knows precisely what shes doing. View Event Website . March 26: Remaining elders, including BH, re-affirm the affirming position first announced to ANC via the internet interview. I very much liked the quotations this article ends with. I wonder if anyone on here is going to change anyones mind. He poignantly ends the chapter with this true statement, p 263: the only truly biblical stance on homosexuality is limited to rejecting male homosexual sex with the same vehemence as, for example, clothing made from wool and linen mixtures, and to remaining open minded about everything else. . http://www.sptsusa.org/not-my-kid/. It is such a shame that a church that meant so much to so many can be destroyed so easily by arrogance. What has happened to jen is not great! So there is no middle ground here. He chased people out with a whip and turned over the tables of the money changers. I understand your pain. Jesus didnt say a lot of things. God comes first. Jesus didnt talk about sexually abusing children. Share. Lets focus on how the devil is using each and everyone of us in order to win good people over to his side. To me this is just one more instance of tolerance being a one way street. Lots of folks. I do not support condescension, intentional divisiveness or mean spirited attacks. They are the most miserable of companions. This is not the Jesus I know, the Jesus who ate with notorious sinners and scandalized the religious as a result. Austin New Church is located in Austin, Texas. Common Confession Be assured that you were persecuted for all the right reasons and God had control of the outcome! Great question KB. Increasingly, 140 characters on twitter are used to express quite nuanced positions. Ah, yes. He just wasnt talking about that. Reasoning is a heretical concept to them. Im both cheered by this article while remaining concerned that we Christians (I dont call myself Evangelical anymore since Trump) arent very deep about our understanding of sexuality and many related topics. The greatest commandments : love God with your whole self, love your neighbour as yourself. Theres a point to this but its not happening the right way. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, so that at the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. New Releases. Is she a pastor? hhhmmmthat kind of thinking doesnt stand up too good. The Bible gives us ample examples of this. TP: Tray Pruitt, founding pastor and elder at ANC Jesus gives the guy a list of commands to keep, and then he tells him, If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me. (NASB) Jesus was very clearly telling the guy how to inherit eternal life. We must as Evangelicals now learn, in the 21st Century, to be at least as good and wise as Nicodemus, who was willing to go to Jesus in private. Its a beautiful picture, private and evocative. Look at this in context: Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? Then yes, to say an act is not a sin (that really is) is saying we dont need Jesus to wash away that sin. What you arent wanting to hear is a calm, sincere appeal to Biblical truths. However, if you are saying that it is sin, but teaching theological self-justification is not false doctrine, its being double-minded. Here are his words to think about while you play gatekeeper over Hatmaker and the others and this topic. It is a pattern of sin emanating from our wicked hearts. 2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704 . Its not what you say but when and how you communicate it. One isnt exposing anything hidden. I know that I was matching hyperbole with hyperbole. A better idea is to study Mt 5-7 with a wary eye for Judaizers early edits, then read the rest as history and commentary. This isnt great, Mike, and soooo important. Why dont we quit pretending that we speak for Godor even that the Bible is clear on everything it teaches? Can core beliefs and clear tenets of faith survive for very long in the same room as life and health and love? The old you have to be tolerant of my intolerance argument. JM states he was silently pro gay marriage when he was hired but kept this position hidden and claims his ability to not be cornered regarding his doctrinal views: I can do the presidential pivot. Where do you get that any sex outside your strict standard is disapproved of by God? She and her husband planted Austin New Church in an economically and ethnically diverse . Over the wall you go, Rob Bell. Or at least that is true for many. Its Farewell, Jen Hatmaker, Offender #11328. People read Frank Schaffer! An to be a Christ followed we have to die to our sin and live for Christ. He also confines marriage to man and woman by reiterating the words of Genesis 1 and 2 in Matthew 19. Let them be the fire and one day, there will be nothing left to burn. I shouldnt have to spell it out. Therefore put away from yourselves the evil person. But we should not bend Gods word with our own to meet the secular world. Why are other leaders so quick to forget this. At the same time large swaths of the blogosphere blew up with the story, starting with Christian watchblogs and Christian feminist blogs and then spreading to atheist sites. Jesus is in charge of me. November 1: BH affirms his JHs position on FB. Their main issue was they wanted to change the by-laws about the processing of hiring staff members. After working with them through many meetings, lunches, and doing everything I could for over six months, they did exactly what you said in your article, they created their posses, spread rumors about me, my wife, and undermined the leadership of my entire staff. When church leaders dont mind resembling the bad guys in the Gospels we have a problem. Sinful mankind, including Gospel-loving movements of the past, have done this time and again. I would like corresponding supportive evidence before Ill consider something as fact. If you dont, how do you justify that? Yes and amen. Make sure love wins, even if it kills us. Theological self-justification and teaching theological self-justification for what God views in truth as sin is keeping people to falling into the grace of God, and rather falling into self-justification. Thats why you go first alone, then take a witness or two and finally tell the church. (implication: she deserves to be shunned and humiliated). Thats down to the individual I guess if they can handle it without wanting to be with that person romantically. Im not. The Body of Christ should do better than this! Such a natural fit. Correction to above: That is, as one man and one woman? Should have read That is, as being expressed fully in marriage between one man and one woman?. But what if your kid asks if he can kill the neighbors punk kid because God did it. Will you tell your child he cant do that? I think we should go one layer deeper, where is the accountability of the Jens and the Robs? This story is similar in human history bully and stifle and corner disparate voices, rewrite the narrative to fit your position. Love, Garry. Updated August 18, 2020 Yes the 2nd chapter of Genesis is poetry. Self justification can take many forms. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Austin Miniatures Western Hotel Saloon 2 story Wild West Cowboys Conte Marx TSSD at the best online prices at eBay! If they dont like it, they dump it. To learn more about the artists and discover more of their work:https://a ANC 12-23-22 Christmas Eve Eve Live Service, Ascension Day. Im late to this article but I totally agree with you Sheri-its time we as TRUE Bible believing Christians start telling it like it is-and if these heretics-and that is what they are-go public-and any preacher is public really, whether online or preaching in their church-why then shouldnt we go public? Even if he didnt mention the sin in specific cases in order to call the person out of a bad image of themselves into an image of someone who is loved, he still didnt condone sin and redefine what sin was. I will simply READ MY BIBLE. Austin Miniatures Western Barn Wild West Cowboys Conte . All your big words back there managed to give the vague impression that it was an actual denial of the Gospel. Specialties. Have you ever held a rattlesnake or chugged a bottle of Clorox? But this type of story appears just once in the Bible. It never has. Law and love are often in conflict. He established the church with his then-wife, Jennifer Lynn Hatmaker, in 2008. I think its important, when considering Matt 18s instruction, to keep in mind how Jesus treated gentiles and tax collectors. People with a homosexual struggle who have homosexual relations are not ANY more sinful than me when I lust after a woman who isnt my wife or you when you harbor hate in your heart toward a neighbor. Thank you for being my intellectual superior and calling me out on that. Im not trying to bait you or flame you or troll you or whatever. I encourage the author and those who agree with the author to please consider this line with regard to love and grace for people with a conservative point-of-view. If one is dealing with public preaching its irrelevant. This is blasphemy pure and simple, to say they felt told this. Its the brutality of unhealthy religion. But my questions remain. And theyre not always wrong. If Jen Hatmakers beliefs prevent one teen from committing suicide because they are gay then maybe all this public scrutiny is worth it. Many are calling it out. And then there are the oft-cited examples of Pauls implicit endorsement of slavery and the reduced role/view of women. Of course not! She already said 2. People arent aware. Thanks for a great post Michael wisdom and love together. The building was originally Faith United Methodist Church since 1968 and in January of . Focus on immaterial things Im not suggesting religious communities shouldnt have core beliefs and clear tenets of faith. Yours just ignoring the facts otherwise. But if a person is a reviler someone who is rude, denigrates others, makes fun of them or tries to make them look small then we should keep away. He encouraged the person to stop sinningmaybe because of His love for people, knowing that sin hurts the personnot because Jesus was focused on condemning sin. And if we as a group stand together and say this we are wrong? On her Instagram page, Hatmaker posted touching photos from Austin Pride Week, with the caption: "My beloved little church went downtown to the #AustinPrideParade and gave out Free Mom Hugs, Free Dad Hugs, Free Grana Hugs, and Free Pastor Hugs like it was our paying jobs. When, in your mind, must a leader be called out for heresy or false doctrine? Some tens of thousands of believers were martyred in 2016 and Jen Hatmaker is complaining about internet trolls and theological criticism. But you miss the third part of Jesus statement regarding how to deal with the one who sins against you. Yes, an email, phone call, face-to-face communication is the first step, and inviting third parties (two or three witnesses) is the second step. Repentance is a core gospel issue. And Im frankly sick and tired of the broken bodies and lives as a result. So, what does healthy religion look like? What does he know? For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a mans enemies will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. We tell local Austin news & weather stories, and we do what we do to make Austin, Round Rock, Georgetown, Dripping Springs, Bastrop and the rest of Central Texas a better place to live. The Scriptures are clear that believers of the Christian faith often speak in tongues. I am with Mike. Its sometimes called the Doctrine of Election. 1,863 were here. Why because no where in the Bible does it say it is okay. I personally think we should confront any teaching done by a well known Christian voice publically, since it is out there publically. Actually S. Tannous what Ben E. Calvert said is VERY biblical. So, I was without a job, no income; my dream was shattered, the church shut down, and the sheep were scattered. I can ALSO say she is an exceptional follower of Jesus who has given her life in service of the. But, please tell me, where did Jesus call it a sin ? Self-justification in all its forms is the greatest affront to the gospel. Paul wrote about some people who were going to temple orgies in Corinth. So many people do want to be christians because so ofter christians are brutal to one another. But this only provided them with more ammunition and fueled their rightness. The loaded the big guns, and intensified their attack. Its not a respectful desire to explore matters of the heart, to find common ground, or to discern a way to live respectfully with differences on non-core beliefs. Jesus did say Burn thine enemies to the ground when they disagree with you. God allowed polygamy, rape victims being forced to marry their rapists, soldiers being allowed to keep women as spoils or war, brothers marrying sisters. To say other wise could cause them not to have Jesus as Lord. And thats the good news that saves lives and supersedes our sexual drives. And it wasnt me but Jesus who said to lust in the heart is adultery, to hate in the heart is murder. Stop posting if you wish to avoid correction or unfounded hatred. These guys are preaching or teaching heresy under the guise of being loving. Thanks, Mike. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Farewell Jen Hatmaker: the brutality of unhealthy religion, Its perfectly natural, not perfectly biblical, to desire the death penalty, A tale of two Christianities on its knees. Marriage is defined by the song of creation in Genesis, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh, man and woman. That said, theres absolutely no need to try a person in the court of public opinion as they suss out their own responsibilities, sexual or otherwise, before God. It seems to be the only one you can quote here. I cant speak for all of Jens critics, but yes, a person with a platform that reaches millions of souls is important and it matters that they are presenting the right Gospel without wavering, and naturally people, myself, included, believe and want this Gospel to be clearly proclaimed no matter the cost. Bear one anothers burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. I teach others as well publically that drinking alcohol in moderation is not sin. Step back and have some one on one time with God because.let he who has no sin cast the first stone and when people do this and run her down you are TURNING PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD!!! He also said marriage was between a man and a woman only. David I am so truly, deeply sorry to read your story. Do you believe in predestination, and, if not, how do you justify that? And I dont know anyone who doesnt love a little Righteous Anger. And trust that if we surrender to his ways and obeys him he will show us the best life, full of the great things like peace and joy and fellowship with the creator of the universe. 1:02. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Praise His holy, beautiful name. It is never correct to say any sin is okay. It was dying out in the early church, but still happened. Timeline: shebearsbecausesheiscalled , 06/14/2019. They are encouraging. JH: Jen Hatmaker, member of Austin New Church (ANC), occasional preacher, no official leadership position stated It will teach and encourage the practice of wisdom and holiness: finding our happiness and fulfilment is about coming to a right understanding of who we are, and what it means to be mature human being in terms of vulnerability as well as potential. I have seen the same kind of thing happen to people very dear to me too. Im not fucking with anyone, man. Selena Gomez and Hailey Bieber drama: A complete timeline of their feud This story has been shared 20,804 times. I mean, its like youre willfully ignoring what Jesus is saying about marriage and what Genesis is saying about marriage. According to a source that told the U.S . But Truth of sin doesnt waver. Brian Austin Green Amid Split From Megan Fox Celebrates Father's Day With His Sons. Rae, hes not slamming anyone. Some people just have a vile hatred of all things Old Testament. Then someone should have told that little catchphrase to Jesus when he chased people with a whip and turned over tables. She knew this was going to be controversial and she chose to go forward because she felt strongly about it. Burnt toast actually. So where does same-sex marriage fall on this? But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. Not to slam the person personally. Ive had to distance myself from several in the Christian community where I live following character assassination and some harassment. Furthermore, did you know that the Biblical Sabbath is on Saturday, not Sunday? But I could on and on and on with everyone here who says different and all I can do is just respond that you have to answer to God someday just like we all have to over whatever in our life. Meets in the Community Center 512-789-3222. This timeline is compelling and will sadly, i fear, be ignored. Gal. The Presbyterian Church of America is a conservative denomination that holds mostly to Reformed teaching, otherwise known as Calvinism. And with all due respect, wouldnt your theology investigation be better invested on this very important matter of salvation (affecting 100% of humanity) instead of the issue of homosexuality (affecting 3-5% of humanity)? My 2 cents. Principles of Community | Reflections from Acts, LOCATION | The 04 Center2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704, SERVICE | Sundays 10:30**Kids/Students Programming and Livestream available. Jesus wanted to create a stampede of animals out of the temple, and theres no reason to conclude he used the whip for any other purpose than this. 19:12). Austin Miniatures Western Hotel Saloon 2 story Wild West Cowboys . It never says anything different then what he just said it does. Whether you're an old member or visiting for the first time we want you to know you that ALL are welcome at the Congregational Church of Austin. So many people never find Christ because they cant follow the rigid teachings of so many well intentioned Christians. Great food for thought. My salvation experience was not based on my status as a repentant sinner. We are a broadly evangelical association of churches, united by a set of core doctrinal statements, I started out in Christian ministry in the 1980s. And Jesus in Matthew 19:4-5? And in any case expressing a mistaken idea isnt a sin. This is the Jesus I follow Have mercy, people. I never did post anything publicly about my concerns with her stance, but she never did message me privately so I could have a conversation with her. He just hates sin. And God HATES divorce. You either believe or you dont and you either repent and work away from sin or you dont. 5/15/22 ANC 5-15-2022 Sunday Live Service ANC 5-15-2022 Sunday Live Service 5/8/22 . In the end, people are going to follow their hearts/instincts. All of scripture is God breathed. We should know by now what Gods word is. I Corinthians 5:11-13 NKJV Praise God David that He never left your side and He indeed had a better place for you. My mind was changed BECAUSE of my seriousness of the Word, not in spite of it. Someone who struggles with homosexual sin and constantly takes it to the cross of Christ, falls and gets back up seven more times is in a much better position gospel-wise than somebody who self-justifies their sin theologically. Earlier I mentioned the Presbyterians. Jesus did say those who are WITHOUT sin, cast the first stone. I believe Jesus did not say you may shame people if your sin is not worse than otherssin. If you write a blog to slam her, or design a demeaning meme, or post an essay-style comment on her blog youre not only being hurtful, but also completely ineffective at the very thing you claim to be doing. Thanks for the great submission Mike. TAKE INITIATIVE. It seems to me there is room to fairly critique both speaker and listener here. Truth is truth, however, and it is offensive. His Holiness And wall building and ceremonial ejections are classic signs of unhealthy religion. Thats the theological belief that God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. Knowing how to respect and honour others is quickly fading from the memories of Western Christians, who live in small, disconnected bubbles of thought, belief, and practice and seem to feel ok with that. May God have mercy on these trespasses and may we all look to Gospel, with its truth and hope, and follow hard after it. To promote some other Christ is, yes, blasphemy, and it is false. I agree with you, Mike. This is a sobering appeal and I pray that yes, this discourse does save life and redeem souls from death. It will open us up to the new: while religion continues to be a profoundly important vehicle for personal and community identity it also embraces a humility borne of the awareness that our knowledge is partial we see through a glass only darkly. However, I am 100% sure its not sin, so I feel like I am doing nothing wrong and am not presenting an affront to the gospel. How do we go about that privately if the person does not respond to you? 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